Heppyfad: Discussion on Module 4, “Insertion of patients with disabilities on the labour market”

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Dear participants,

Module 4 deals with the issue of insertion of patients with disabilities on the labour market.

People with disabilities may face social, legal and practical barriers when claiming their rights as the others do, which is often due to misunderstanding and negative perception toward disability.

For a better understanding of the situation of these people, we considered it is necessary for the professionals to have knowledge on the fundamental human rights, as well as on the rights of people with disabilities.

As well, the chapter deals with the need of information and counselling of people with disabilities and their families in the larger context of their professionally development, from the perspective of narrative medicine.

You may wonder what does the health carer have to do with insertion of these patients on the labour market? Well, from the perspective of narrative medicine, the health carer provides a holistic approach and should be able to answer different types of needs of the patient, including those related to information, counselling, advising on what relevant institutions to go to, etc.

We kindly invite you to take part in the discussions on the forum related to this module.

(Edited by Federico Pixel - original submission Tuesday, 14 May 2013, 1:18 PM)

It is a hard work to do to insert people with disabilities in the field of labour, especially because the rights for the patient and the benefits for the hiring institutions are not so well known.That 's why I consider wery interesting to find out how to do these kind of work to really work in the benefits of the patient and their families.

From my point of view the employment of people with disabilities is a process in which we must have an final objective, integrated employment in standardized enterprises, to use the same conditions of work, wages and hours like other workers without disabilities , in companies where the majority of employees do not have any disability

I totally agree with you. But on the other hand, we can start from small things to achieve bigger objectives. For example, we can start a process of insertion on the labour market by helping a person with disability who let's say has not had any job before, find an internship in a company where he/she can learn practical things and achieves social integration. Even if for the beginning it could not be a paid job, it could be a start.

Hello! From my point of view the patients whit disabilities must help by integrate them in special programs wher learn to bee wesful for societate, whe must accept them working whit as and teach them step by step haw to end a work. In my country the person whit disabilities are marginalised, ther family must ofer them love and support and work whit them home.

I had to deal with patients with disabilities, for them every opportunity to "enter" into "normal life" means a lot, so I can not describe how much it means to them the possibility of normal daily work.

Indeed, the rights of patients with disabilities, as well as of the employers, in the job context, are not so well known. That is why raising awareness on these is an important issue.

I work in a nursing home where every year there is the possibility of internship for a person with disabilities as cook's assistant. It is a really important experience: for the person itself, for the other people working in the nursing home and for the patients. The relationships are always very meaningful and I think that is a great possibility.

That is indeed a very interesting experience as the job of cook assistant involves also team work and relationships so we achieve development of the person at different levels, and why not, it could be an opportunity to actually find a job in the future.

One of my pacient told me,that she is still working.Luckily,the company that she works for has been superb.She is allowed to work from home and the company contributes towards her mobile phone bills.If she need to go in ,she can get a lift to and from the office

a young woman with disabilities who told us about his experience in the world of work has taught us that there is the art of wonder.

this woman is called Federica.

Federica I say thank you for this teaching.

It should be noted that often a person with a disability is a better employee, because it depends a lot more on the job - a lot more for her means.

It seems to me that people with disabilities better than anyone else, know their rights, but someone has to give them a chance.

i agree with Manuela. First of all, i think in Romania we don't have the legal support and i must say that very rare we interract with people with disabilities, maybe because they choose not to work beeing afraid or feeling ashamed.

I have a similar experience when it comes to Poland - a lot less here for people with disabilities that exist in the labor market. But also a lot fewer of those people on the streets or participating in social life. In Italy and Germany, I saw such people much more.

In Iasi county is a good school for children with physical disabilities (I guess in this modul it is only about physical disabilities). So skills shouldn't be a problem for those childrens with a normal intelligence who want to learn to follow a trade.

The infrastructure seems to be a problem: in Iasi there is a lack of ramps and there are no slip resistant floors at all, as far as I know, a.s.o. Beside the environmental barriers the attitudinal barriers are even bigger, in my opinion. Unfortunately lots of people have a negative attitude towards people who are a little different. Changing such a negative attitude into a attitude of acceptance should be a first step.

I think that integration on the labour market for people wiht a physical disability is quite difficult, especially for people from the country side. There are still lots of villages where there are not even proper roads.

Indeed, there is a lot of space for improvement in our country, both at infrastructure level as well as attitudes/perception. Cases of people with disabilities integrated in the labour market are still at the level of few success stories. But changes come also with time, and little efforts do count.

However,the findings could also imply that older (disabled) workers have dificulties in finding employment and face prejudice because of their apparent limitations,therefore "choosing"" sef-employment for lack of a better alternative to gain a living or to supplement the existing income.

The most important consequence is lack of mobility, and then inability to find work.

Our organisation where I work as a volunteer-nurse, presented the petition to the Ministry of Social Security and Labour,where they spent enormous of money for employment projects from European Community,as still there are no results.Nowhere not only in our institution.I think that there is a lack of competence of who work with programmes or can be corruption???

We need to activate people with disabilities to every possible form of return to the labor market. Any such return is our success.

Maybe there is someone who actually knows a real succes story in Iasi? Does anybody know a employer in this neightbourhood who hires people with disabillities?

Unfortunetely the last 20 years there hasn't been introduced at least one law about integrating people with disabillities in the labour field. Not even the European Union made any efforts at all when Romania joined the union. So maybe it is not even considered a problem. Especially nowadays when getting a job is a real problem for lots of people, it's a kind of survival of the fittest. And that is a pitty. When we think about small changes that can make a difference, perhaps NGO's have to make a start and give an example.

People with disabilities should be encouraged, not marginalized. Parents and family provide moral and financial support, sometimes being forced to leave their job to help loved ones. Encouragement, advice and retraining required.

Indeed, parents and family who also need counselling and support, including the in the job field, as many times the family carers also quite the jobs to take care of the person with disability.

The trouble romanian general lack of accessibility of the school. In addition with this problem îs an absence of education in term of disability and parents awarness regarding education of children with disabilities. I think the specialitate cursei, literature would ne a prerequisite for the integration of persons with disabilities, acces road, buildings, transport, îs active participation and inclusion in society stimulating their potential.

As I have a half time working with a students,we analyse how parent participation in transition plans has been found to very significantly depending upon the category of disability.Students with a learning disabilitie where much less likely to have family members participate in the development of their transition components than other disability categories. I think that it is very important object for further investigation.

I agree that parents often are the key individuals who can articulate clear and realistic outcomes for the child,s future.Parents may be best suited to select the appropriate person to coordinate the job profile according child,s abbility...

As a matter of fact the family actually receives financial support from the Romanian government: if a person is severly handicapped, he has the right to get a personal assistent who is being paid by the local government.

I agree that people should be encouraged and therefore I think that the govenrment needs to make more facilities, like for example a kind of social factories. People do have real jobs than and make a real production. And they are certain of their income. Maybe some day there will be some business people who also want to invest in such factories, espessially for people with disabilities. But untill then it has to be the government that is supposed to take action.

I agree that the marginalization of people with disabilities leads only to deepen their alienation and social exclusion. It is our duty to support these people, and particularly the role of the people working here in the healthcare system.

Making work more attractive and feasible to disabled people requires a more suitable synthesis between benefits and emloyment.Disabled people who choose not to work full-time should not feel economically endangered.Flexicurity constitutes therefore an important aspect.

Disabilities may occur anytime in the our whole life,starting with the nwborn stage of life ,until in the final steps of our life.So I think it's very important to be concerning by this problem(even we can be the "victim"of a disability),to study the roots of disabilities , to think at the solutions for avoiding them,and if the disability is a fact to can help a person in this situation and to integrate in a adecvate activity.

i agree that patients with disabilities may be encouraged to work, in this way they feel useful, they have more confidence in them. unfortunately in my country (Romania), people with disabilities are marginalized, and they are seen with different eyes. i hope after a few years this situation change, becouse in my opinion people with disabilities don t want that people feel about them compassion, they want to be seen exactly like normal people.

In Lithuania disabled people became subject to research more than a decade ago.

However, there is a little research into disabled people studying in higher education compared to that in general.education or into of disabled people in the state and disability in general.It could be stated that Lithuanian researchers on disabled students in higher education just now started to analyze the situation in the whole country,since the situation in higher institutions situated in different regions.These researchers could be assigned to applied researchers,because they are focused on practical application and problem solving.

I would like to supplement to Aldonas comment.

Disabled students participation in higher education institutions provide an opportunity to see this field from a new angle.Hence, the importance of the role of disabled persons while implementing agencies ( as it been done) is being highlighted, as a result of which the social practices in higher education institutions are changing.Therefore,disabled students are seen and perceived as active participants in the study process,capable of making an impact on bettering studying conditions.Of great importance the participants of the research have different kind of disabilities.Moreover, the grounded theory about disabled students participation in Lithuanian higher education institutions has been created for the first time.

It would seem that situation is changed,but slowly....

Another question,how narrative medicine can help solving disbled people umployment .

Narrative medicine , a power what delicate narrative situation rules out the rude question of how far health,as a system of quality of life,will accept a co-partnership with narrative medicine within which stories (associated with knowledge and power) are not separable instruments of professional education but rather inseparable signs of an entire worlview.This worldview understands health through concepts of living in balance with the body functions and psychological view,including the local community and the spirit real.Additionally it understands stories as actively promoting or restoring balance.Narrative medicine right at the start challenges of disabled uneployment about a clean division between employer and employee. Instead, it posit of knowledge constituted by a process of dialogue in which two or more subjectivities reach agreement ( or reach a knowledge of their disagreement).Such knowledge is not trouble fee, but very useful for further and continously relationship.

Hello!

I also agree that people with disabilities should be integrated in the work field,but in Romania ,I think that they have no support from the gouverment and they are marginalized.

In the other hand they need real programs and people that can help them and also finantial support ,so that the 3-4 hours that they could work to be an extra money(for example).

My opinion is that they are not integrated at all and we should make something about this,but this issue starts in the first years of life (just for example,childreen with autism are not accepteed in public kinder garden-tell me if I m wrong- it is real that they need special help but they also need to be a part of a whole).How could we integrate an young adult in the work market if we can't do the easiest part.

However,things need to be changed and this starts in our menality and in courses like this where we can speak about this problems and find solutions.

Hello!

I studied Social Work and one of the subjects that I studied was about laws for people with disabilities. These laws are:

-Emergency Ordinance number 102/1999 of 29 June 1999 concerning special protection and employment of people with disabilities.

-Law number 519/2002 of 12 July 2002 approving the ordinance number 102/1999 of 29 June 1999 concerning special protection and employment of people with disabilities.

These laws talk about rights and obligations of people with disabilities and also about the way they can be employed.

I think that the real problem in terms of integrating people with disabilities into the labor market arises from the lack of knowledge of the rights they have. I say this because at work I met a disabled adult who worked at home, and now receives a pension because of this. This person knew his right to work and therefore did what he could to get a job.

In my opinion I think that the first step for the insertion of patients with disabilities on the labour market is to help them to know their rights, but also to raise awareness in the community that these people have the right to work. And I think this will be difficult because we don't know or respect common sense rights such as respect-site parking or ramps for boarding transportation.

So there are laws and it is quiet clear that the community does not take any intitiatives to make those laws work. I think that the government has to oblige people / firms to hire people with disabilities on the labour market. It is a shame that our general culture doesn't stand up for them just because that would be right.

hello! I agree theat the people whit disabilities must bee integrated in the first years of life, they must bee integrated in special programs and the gouvernement plays an important roll in this sens because must support this programs. like adult whit disabilities they must feel useful and bee trate like normal people, we must help them and accept a person whit disabilities like a coleg or like a friend, a best friend.

I think that some of people with disabilities are resigned to their condition, other would like to be considered / treated as healthy individuals. It's hard, as a person with disability to find a job where you feel useful. People with disabilities need conselling, which in Romania is not an well developed area.

I think that first of all we have to understand their needs and try to respect and see them beyond their disability.For the majority of these patients it is very important to feel useful but their integration on the labour market, especialy in this time of crisis is even more difficult.

I must agree with you Otilia, and underline the need of free counseling based on a National Program. There is a constant need of specialists in this domain, and many would offer to help but dealing with the costs is the real problem. Special funds should be directed to develop a nation wide strategy for the benefit of both: the patients with disabilities and the state.

Hello,my name is onute.I am working in the hospital.

I realy like the activities described in the modules.I can use in my daily work.This brings a lot of new experience.In our training sessions we filled a feedback with our comments.

I think we can exchange with our experience and issues of the knowledges at our work place.

In the training team we tried to play game,which was introduced in the 3 module.Very interesting.We laughed,we invited (fib) fantasy,and had learned.Furthemore, we tried to answer questions in English.Besides,It is a good practise to learn and to practise language.I hope to be invited to participate in the feedback of the next module.

It is very important to tell to the employer abaut your disease,because if a person takes a low profile,and not dares to say that he is sick, there are cases where the employer thought that he is a drug addict or an alcoholic.It happens very often of the desease characterized by anormal coordination.

I also heard about a similar situations.

One of my pacient told me,that all his colleagues thought that he is a drug addict

It is frequently assumed that persons with disabilities cannot or do not want to work. This is incorrect-disabled persons,like non-disabled persons want to work and, given the apportunity,can and do work

Hello, I'm an Italian nurse, I have been working from 2009 in a General Surgery Ward in Turin and since the last Heppy meeting I've never really met patients with disabilities. I mean of course I met some people with disabilities, but I''ve never tried to really understand their needs to be independent, maybe because I couldn't feel or I wasn't ready to understand their necessity to be independent, for example through a job.

During last Heppy meeting in Turin we all met two fantastic people I cannot forget: Roberto Russo and Federica Mattalia. They are two disable people and they spoke to us about their interests, daily living, activities, job and what they expect from the future and from the community where they live. They really impressed me positively, with their energy, strengh and determination and I could feel the important role of the family and carers they have around. To my opinion that meeting has been a positive lesson of life for everyone I will never forget. Thanks to Roberto and Federica! A big hug, all the best for the future!

Related to persons with physical disabilities. I think such a person would give more interest to work compared to young healthy and capable of much. Would feel useful, helpful to society, no longer feel marginalized and put soul into the work that it performs. Anyway shame that we know how to appreciate their peers.

Hello Everyone,

If we talk about equal rights and possibilities to compete in the labour market, I think that assisting people with disabilities to find employment is in many ways not much different than working with any other people. I think, that like anyone else, people with disabilities need to:

• have a clear idea of the type of job they wish to pursue;

• consider what type of work environment would be the best fit for them;

• use their personal and professional networks as a key component of their job search.

In addition to this, I know many cases where employers hire people with disabilities when:

1. Benefits directly related to business objectives. For example, disable person should demonstrate that hiring him/her the employer will have direct economic benefit. Hiring people with disabilities meets the organisation’s personnel needs by filling vacancies. In this situation would be less flexibility around how the job is designed and what kind of support will get the disable person.

In the below two situations, the employer would be interested and more committed to ,,making it work’’.

2. Benefits indirectly related to business objectives. In this situation, hiring people with disabilities benefits a company’s long-term viability and profitability by enhancing the corporate image and demonstrating a commitment to the community.

3. Benefits related to organisational values. For example, to hire people with disabilities may be influenced by the personal values of the hiring manager, particularly if they have a family member, friend or neighbour with disability. In this situation hiring people with disabilities reflect the organisation’s commitment to corporate social responsibility, and is viewed as ,,the right thing to do’’; the benefits to the company are of secondary importance in comparison to the outcomes expected for the employee with a disability and for the community at large.

In Lithuania there are all possibilities to seek for paid or unpaid employment or stay at home and receive social support from government or municipality. The choice always depends on individual, its beliefs, values and life targets.

With all my best,

Ruta Januleviciene

After the interesting participation of Dr. Carla Bena about social and health care integration in disability, achieved in the municipality of Settimo Torinese, and of Professor Riziero Zucchi about the integration of people with disabilities, I found very engaging the second part of the morning, thanks to the presence of Roberto and Federica, who made us reflect about the path that we practice in the HEPPY Project.

I think I am going to use the described tools in the Commission "District Psychologist" of the Order of Psychologists of Piedmont, whereby we are considering whether to create a sub-group who will structure a course of study and research on possible collaborations with general practitioners and pediatricians.

The right to work is a fundamental right. It is essential for realising other human rights. Every individual has the right to be able to work.

One of the difficulties of insertion of disabled people on the labour market is connected to the mentality of the community, who presents an important obstacle in their insertion in the social and economical structures.

The category of mentally disabled is one of those who are mostly socially excluded, because of their low level of their professional and social skills, their chances of their inclusion in the socio-economic structures of the society are minimal.

Hello, My name is Merly and I come from Madrid (Spain). In the last module, the main aspect forthis module was the experience narred by an disable person who explained us her life, her challenges day by day and the unbelievable help that gives to her the positive thinking and self-steem. She gave to us her point of view about how to be with disability people and the importance of giving them autonomy and confidence in order to motivate theirselves.

Hello, my name is Rebeca and I did the module in Fundación Senara- Spain. With my professional skills and my work I realized with this module the important aspect of the autonomy regarding to disability people. They need to believe in their own skills, competences and self-steem to understant the important value and challenge that their lives mean. Training to develop this main points is the work of the healthcareer.

Hello! I think people with disabilities need the support and understanding of their families and of the community to face with dignity and right assumption the fact of beeing different. They also need to feel equal, and this means that we should make a clear distinction between the individial value of human beeing and his or her capacity to integrate in the society. Even if in my country, people with disabillities face real problems from this point of view, I think it is possible to help them integrate starting from our attitude. A member of my familly , after a car crash, became unable to walk again. The love and the support of the familly as well as his optimism and will, helped him to integrate very well, to gain a job, and to face the problem of mobility by special ways of transport for this kind of disabillity.

The national organisations are also a way of support and bring them together, offer them strength and help them cope with the feeling of lonlieness between other people.

The problem is that it may be very expensive for a person with disability to face the barriers of the society, and according with the finanicial status of the country, it may be kinda difficult to improve this field.

From my point of view the patients with disabilities needs help from familly and society to be integrated and to fight to their rights. The problems people with disabilities should inquire entire society. There should be programs nationwide to be promoted and involved.

An important role in the lives of these patients it is familly, that should support them at all levels and thus increase their self-esteem.

Indeed a very important social problem with a constant need of resolution in developing countries like Romania. Special counseling and information given not only for the person with disability but also for the family and employer, is a necessity.

Very true and very painful is that discussion, conversation, counseling in the retirement homes sometimes lacking of informations. Speak only to the point and that it takes much more time...granting wider in order to identify several hidden problems in the elderly. They demand of us obedience, patience...old age should be reassuring. All of this come with troyuble, sickness and loneliness. So our role is to fulfill this important mission with a maximum importance for our elders

It's a critical social problem also in countries like Italy, where the welfare is dying by corrupted or wrong policies during from many years. And persons with disabilty, thier relatives (and even social worker) risk to be out in front of the bad situation. At the present, normal people loss their job, it's hard to hope for person with disability...

This course explained a lot to me.From now on I will treat patients with disabilities different.

Was very interesting to have had the opportunity to partecipate in this training project.The inclusion of people with disabilities in the labour market is a major challenge wich every operator should partecipate.

It's good to remember what are their rights, we need to respect and help in the integration process, we have to make them feel an integral part of the group.

Working with people who have disabilities gives us an opportunity to do better every day, gives us new challengs.

I was very impressed by the evidence that we have able to osserve during the meeting held at the Hospital Gradenigo, see how these guys can do with their disability as a key to access various services.

Is essencial to represent the need of the patients we care for and raise awareness to their rights to the different levels of wich decisions are made relating to health in a prospective of collaboration with multidisciplinary team. is also of great importance the role of institutions that have a strong impact on civil and social rights of person with disabilities.

people with disabilities can reciive gratification from work suchs as to make them better in other areas, so they can also become a resource for society

of course it is hard to integrate a person with disabilities in the labour market cause of the others perception. the insertion is posible by educating the normal persons around

Hello to all,

I read with interest some interventions in this forum. The rules and approaches that each State has to integrate people with disabilities into the labor market, are not sufficient or near to the real needs of those who should take advantage of such services.
For this I also believe that the associations are very important to act as a liaison between families and institutions.
These meetings are useful to educate people will not only on the main themes that Happy faces, but also to understand how the family and the relationship with it, are of crucial importance because the disabled person to live in a Satisfactory way in our society.

Often people with disabilities have greater potential ... and are an example for whole community

Bruna Giugno

Hello!!

Mary time you fight for a disabled person without knowing how that person thinks, feelings, a desire...is a struggle to them without them.

I think the first aid that can be given to the person with a disability is to help they discover the skills you have so they can empower. they feel capable, make them aware of their right, which makes them enjoy and participate in the struggle for their rights.

Recognize individual difference's the persons are essential to promote autonomy insofar as possible, to improve their skills in each particular case. This way we can support them in the fight for their rights.

This is a kind of job I would like to try, being a psychologist: I think thah there nothing more important that trying to put a person with disabilities in a "normal", making him/her feeling good. It's a challenge..

The Handicaps are in our minds
First thing to do is clean up and our mind and then it goes on

Who is Handicap
Handicaps are our ways of thinking and often behind people with disabilities, there are genes

Who is Handicap Handicaps are our ways of thinking and often behind people with disabilities, there are genes

I share
every handicapped person is a genius

I'll share with Rosaria Patti
every handicapped person is a genius

Dear collegues,

module 4 deals with the issue of insertion of patients with disabilities on the labour market. My opinion is the labour is a right for all the people.

Really people with disabilities may face social, legal and practical barriers and we all have to work to overcome these barriers. But the real problem in Europe now is the labour, for all, otherwise we run the risk of insuring utopia-rights.

Hello to all,

the course was very interesting and made in my knowledge of the fundamental concepts: The laws are as important as their application, but it is critical awareness of the people on the issues, so I think it is crucial to spread as much as possible the ideas from the various associations

I found very interesting the integration experiences at the Polytechnic and at the Turin University.
It would be important to be able to share the integration experiences existing on the different areas and the social policies that support them to find a way to sensitize institutions to make national and European laws to promote a greater integration of people with disabilities.

Disability should not be a discriminating for access to the work as it should not be for the maintenance of the work.

I've been for more than twenty years a general practitioner. In this time and during the meeting of module 4 I learnt that the first person, that must believe in the capacities of patients with diabilities, is me. I must know the legislation but, at first, I must believe in the patient, I must listen to the thing he/she has to tell to me, to help him/her to become what he/she wants, not what I like for him/her. I learnt,also, to listen to his/her parents, that often know and understand ,better than me, the patient and his/her predispositions and abilities. I Know of medicine but I must learn a lot about human beeing...I think it's ,also, very important in the insertion of the patient on the labour market the integration of the family with the sanitary world and social servicies.

In the italian school kids with disabilities are admitted since 1974. The way has been difficult but we achieved grat goals. Now this situation is treathened by the spending review and so on. We have some good laws about insertion of people with disbilities on the labour but the actual crisis menaces everyone's working right, as other paticipants have already pointed out.

i think that insertion of patient with disabilities on the labour market is very important for the indipendence the these people.

Hello,according my understanding , the aim of our team is to provide the opportunity to learn more about the success,challenges and different approaches to the independence-related needs of disabled persons in different countries.

Hello,

I work with disababled patient, and it's very very important the respect, the empathy e the actenction of their story.

It seems to me that this very important topic. We can not leave these people themselves. Entering the labor market will make them a better life and social integration in other areas of life.

I believe that people with disabilities can give us a lot and a lot we can learn from them, so we should aim for maximum ease of entry into the labor market for them.

Our role as employee health care system is to encourage and persuade people with disabilities that they can return to the labor market and be valuable members of society. Sometimes very little is needed to make people believe again in themselves and their capabilities.

The insertion of patients with disabilities on the labour market seems to be a very difficult process even nowadays. I think that the state should encurage employers (as well financially) to support this process.

Thank you all for taking part to the discussion,

I declare officially closed the forum on module 4 of the Heppy project.

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